Ahmed) Auzubillahi Minash Shaitanir Rajeem,
Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim..…(Arabic)…In
the Name of Allah the Most Gracious, the
Most Merciful. Dr. William Campbell, Dr. Zakir Naik, Dr. Mazachis, Dr. Jamal
Badawi, Dr. Samuel Nauman and Mr. Sam Shamoon, distinguished guests, ladies and
gentlemen, As Salaamu Alaikum Wa
(Samuel Naaman) Thank you brother Sabeel Ahmed - It is a pleasure and honour to be here with you this evening. And first of all, I myself with a group of our brothers and sisters from the Christian background, really like to thank the Islamic Circle of North America, and the local people who have organized this unique event. They have done a great job - they have worked very hard. And now we have come to the last moment, to be here. Dr. William Campbell did his medical work, in Cleveland Ohio at Casewestren Reserve University. He worked for twenty years in Morocco, where he learnt Arabic. After 7 years in Tunesia, he wrote his book, answering Dr. Maurice Bucaille. He is a convinced Christian, who likes to explain the Injeel or the Gospel, to everyone. At age 74, Dr. Campbell is retired with 10 grandchildren. And we are really thankful, and we are really happy to be with you tonight - Thank you.
(Dr. Mohammed) On behalf of the Islamic Research Foundation, I Dr. Mohammed Naik am pleased to be amongst you all along with Dr. Zakir. It is a pleasure to be here for this unique event, and have the good pleasure of having scholars like Dr.William Campbell, Dr. Jamal Badawi, Dr. Mazzacus, as well as my co-colleague Brother, Dr. Samuel Naaman, here with us. I on behalf of Brother Samuel and myself, present the format for the dialogue. The format as agreed and decided fair, by both our speakers is, Dr. William Campbell would first address you for 55 minutes on the topic - ‘The Qur’an and the Bible in the light of Science.’ Then Dr. Zakir Naik at the far end, would make his presentation for 55 minutes on the same topic. This would be followed by a response session, in the which Dr. Campbell would respond to the matter presented by Dr. Zakir for 25 minutes, followed by Dr. Zakir too responding for 25 minutes, to the matter presented by Dr. Campbell. Lastly, we would have the open Question and Answers session, in which the audience may pose questions to each speaker alternately, on the question mikes provided in the auditorium. After the mikes-questions are handled, we would allow questions on index cards to be provided by volunteers in aisles, and in the order selected at random, by the coordinators and the advisors, to each of the speakers. Ladies and gentlemen... to address you, today… Dr. William Campbell.
(Dr. William Campbell) Greetings to Dr. Naik, who came… almost surely came the farthest. Greetings to Sabeel Ahmed, and Mohammed Naik, and greetings to the organising committee. Calling this... ‘The ultimate dialogue’ – It is a bit of an exaggeration - But it is good advertising. And greetings to you the audience. I would like to also bring greetings in the name of Yehowah or better known as Jehowah the great Creator God, who loves us. I wish to start by speaking about words. Tonight we are going to speak about the words of the Bible, and the words of the Qur’an. The scholars of modern linguistics tell us...‘A word, a phrase or sentence means, what it meant to the speaker, and the person or crowd of people listening. In the case of the Qur’an, what it meant to Mohammed, and those listening to him. In the case of the Bible, what it meant to Moses or Jesus, or those listening to them. To check this we have the context of all the usage in the Bible or the Qur’an. In addition, there is the poetry and letters of that century - For the Gospel, the first century A.D... for the Qur’an the 1st century of the Hijra. If we are going to follow the truth, we may not make up new meanings. If we are seriously after truth, there are no permissible lies. Here is an example of what I am taking about - We can have the first slide here. This is talking about two dictionaries, that I have in my home - One from 1951 and 1991. In these two dictionaries, the first meaning ‘pig’... ‘a young swine of either sex’ - is the same. The second meaning... ‘any swine or hog’, ‘any wild or domestic swine’ - It is the same. Third... ‘the flesh of swine… pork’ - it is the same. Then the meaning of... ‘person or animals of piggish habits’ - It is the same... ‘A person who is gluttonous.’ And down here, pouring metal into a pit, for pig iron, is the same. But over here, is a new meaning. A police officer… we call police officers ‘pigs.’ All right the question is – ‘In the Torah, it says you cannot eat pigs. Or can I turn around and say… ‘O yes! That means police officers - You cannot eat police officers.’ Off course not. In the Qur’an, Allah says… ‘You cannot eat pigs.’ Can I translate it… ‘Cannot eat police officers ?’ No! it is wrong - It would be stupid - It would be lying actually. Mohammed did not mean… ‘police officers’ - Moses did not mean… ‘police officers.’ We may not have any new meanings. We must use the meanings known in the first century A.D. for the Bible or that is for the Gospel, and the first century of the Hijra, for the Qur’an. Now let us look at what the Qur’an is going… says about ‘Embryology.’ Oh sorry! Got the wrong thing. It is been said that the idea of the embryo developing through stages, is a modern one - And the Qur’an is anticipating modern embryology, by depicting different stages. In his pamphlet entitled… ‘Highlights of human Embryology’ by Keith Moore - Dr. Moore claims… ‘The realization of the embryo develops in stages in the uterus was not discussed to illustrate it, until the 15th century.’ We will weigh this claim by considering the meaning of the Arabic words used by the Qur’an. And secondly, by examining the historical situation leading upto, and surrounding the Qur’an. We will start by looking at the main words using the word ‘Alaqa’ - main verses. The Arabic word ‘Alaqa’ in the singular, or ‘Alaq’ as the collective plural, is used six times. In the Surah of ‘The Resurrection’, ‘AL-Qayamat’, 75 : 35 to 39, we read… ‘Was he man, not a drop of sperm ejaculated, then he became ‘Alaqa’, and God shaped and formed, and made of him a pair – the male and the female.’ In the Surah of ‘The Believer’ – Al Momin, 40:67, it says… ‘He it is who created you from dust, then from a sperm drop, then from a leech like clot - ‘Alaqa.’ Then brings you forth as a child, that perhaps you may understand. In the Surah of ‘The Pilgrimage’ – Al-Hajj, 22:5, it says… ‘O mankind! If you have doubt about the resurrection, consider that we have created you from dust. Then from a drop of seed, then from a clot ‘Alaqa’, then from a little lump of flesh, shapely and shapeless. And finally the following statement is there in the Surah of ‘The Believers’, Al-Mominun, 23:12 to 14, which reads… ‘Verily, We created man from a product of wet earth, then placed him as a drop of seed, in a safe lodging. Then We fashioned the drop of clot - ‘Alaqa’, and of the clot, We fashioned a lump, and of the lump We fashioned bones, and We clothed the bones with meat. Then We produced it as another creation. And here you have the stages according to the Qur’an… ‘Nutfa’ … ‘sperm’, ‘Alaqa’ … ‘clot’, ‘Mudgha’ … ‘piece of meat’, ‘Azaam’ … ‘bones’, and the fifth stage – ‘dressing the bones with muscles. Over the last hundred plus years, this word ‘Alaqa’, has been translated as follows. There is ten translations here - I am not going to read them all. 3 are in French, - (French), (French), (French), or a ‘clot of blood’, 3 versions… 5 versions are English, where it is either ‘clot’ or ‘a leech like clot’, 1 version is in Indonesian, at the bottom there… ‘Siganpaudara’, ‘lump clot’, or ‘a clot of blood’ and the last one is Parsi – ‘Khunbasfa’ … ‘a clot of blood’. As every reader who has studied human reproduction would realize, there is no stage, as a ‘clot’, during the formation of a fetus. So this is a very major scientific problem. In the dictionary it is a word, and the only meanings given for ‘Alaqa’ in this feminine singular, are ‘clot’ and ‘leech’ - And in North Africa, both of these meanings are still used. Many patients have come to me to ask for a clot to be removed from their throat, … and many women have come to me and told me their period did not come. When I say… ‘I am sorry, I cannot give you medicine to bring your period, because I believe that is a baby.’ The will say ‘Mazaaltem’- It is still blood.’ So they were understanding these ideas of the Qur’an. Lastly we must consider the first verses which came to Mohammed, in Mecca. These are found in the 96th Surah called ‘Alaqa’ … ‘Clots’ - from the very word, that we are studying. In 96: 1, 2, we … read… ‘Proclaim in the name of your Lord, who created.’ Created man from ‘Alaq’. Here the word is in the collective form. This form of the word can have other meanings, because ‘Alaq’ is also the derived verbal noun of the word ‘Alaqa’. The verbal noun usually corresponds to ‘dejerant’, in English as in a sense … ‘Swimming is fun’. Therefore we could expect it to mean hanging or clinging or adhering. But the ten translators listed above have all used ‘clot’ or ‘congealed blood’ in this verse too. In spite of the number and qualifications of these translators who used the word ‘clot’, the French Doctor, Maurice Bucaille has sharp words for them. He writes … ‘What is more likely to mislead the enquiring reader, is once again the problem of vocabulary?’ The majority of translations describe - for example, man’s formation … from a blood clot. A statement of this kind is totally unacceptable to Scientists specialising in the field. This shows how great the importance of an association, between linguistic and scientific knowledge is, when it comes to grasping the meaning of Qur’anic statements, on reproduction. Put in other words, Bucaille is saying …‘No body has translated the Qur’an correctly, until I Dr. Bucaille came along.’ How does Dr. Bucaille think that it should be translated? He proposes that instead of ‘clot’, the word ‘Alaqa’ should be translated as, ‘something which clings’, which would refer to the fetus being attached to the uterus through the placenta. But as all you ladies who have been pregnant now, the thing which clings, does not stop its clinging to become chewed meat. It keeps on being a thing which clings, which is attached by the placenta for 8 and a half months. Thirdly, these verses say that…‘The chewed meat becomes bones, and then the bones are covered with muscles. They give the impression that first the skeleton is formed and then it is clothed with flesh - And Dr. Bucaille knows perfectly well, that this is not true. The muscles and the cartilage precusses of the bones, start forming from the solmite at the same time. At the end of the 8th week, there are only a few centers of calcification started - But the fetus is already able to make muscular movement. In a personal letter from Dr. T.W. Sadler, who is associate Professor in Embryo Anatomy, and the author of ‘Langman’s Medical Embryology’, Dr. Sadler states … ‘At the eight week post perozation, the ribs would be cartilaginous … not bones - And muscles will be present’. Also at this time, calcification will just begin. Muscles would be capable of some movement at 8 weeks. It is always better to have two witnesses, so we shall see what Dr. Keith Moore has to say about the development of bones and muscles, in his book ‘The Developing Human’. Extracted from the Chapters 15 and 17, we find the following information: The skeletal system develops from mesoderm. The limb muscles develop in the limb buds that are derived from this somatic mesoderm. We see that here on this slide. It is difficult perhaps to see, but there is the limb bud, and then here there is just the little bit of cartilage with the muscles around. Here there is more cartilage, and this is the whole bud. The bones are formed and in the form of bones, but it is all cartilage - No bones yet. The second slide shows how it forms. Here is the… here is the cartilage. Though it is just the bone it looks like cartilage, and then it starts to have some calcium deposited, and then it starts to have calcification, and bone formed. As the bone marrow is formed … sorry, I want to go back to this. As the bone marrow is formed, mild blast develop a large muscle mass in each limb bud, separating into extensive reflexive muscles. In other words, the limb muscles develops simultaneously, for the mezincaine surrounding the developing bones. So there is the cartilage, and here are the muscles developing around the cartilage. During a personal conversation with Dr. Moore, I showed him Dr. Salder’s statement, and he agreed that it was absolutely valid. Conclusion: Dr. Salder and Dr. Moore agree - There is no time when calcified bones have been formed, and then the muscles are placed around them. The muscles are there, several weeks before there are calcified bones, rather than being added around previously formed bones, as the Qur’an states. The Qur’an is in complete error here. The problems are far from being solved. Let us return to the ‘Alaqa’ - Dr. Moore also has a suggestion. He says… ‘Another Verse, in the Qur’an refers to the leech like appearance, and the chewed like stages of human development’. From this definition, Dr. Moore has gone ahead to propose…‘There are 23-30 day ------ a 23 day embryo – 3 millimeters long - that is an 8th of an inch. I can hardly put my fingers there lose together without touching. This is stage 10, shown on the inside cover of Moore’s book. This is the beginning, and here is the sperm entering the egg - So that is stage 1. Comes down here to stage 6th in the second week. And here is the 3rd week. And there is the first stage 10, and here is day 23, and this is what Dr. Moore wants to say… ‘looks like a leech’. If we could look further though, and look at the X-Ray… Here is day 22 and the back bone is still open. And when we look at day 23 the back bone is open there, and it is open there, and the head is wide open - It does not look like a leech at all. And if you keep on this is the diagram of it -The head is open, the nogstral neurropore, and finally this diagram shows there is the 20 day embryo. It is got a yolk sac, it is got an umbilicus - It does not look like a leech at all. The problem… the great problem with these two definitions for the word ‘Alaqa’, is that no confirming examples have been provided, from the Arabic used. In the centuries surrounding the Hijr, the only way to establish the meaning of the word, is by usage. The only way to establish whether the singular form ‘Alaqa’ can mean a 3 millimeters ‘embryo’, or ‘the thing that clings’, is to bring census, demonstrating this usage from the letter, throughout the Arabs of Mecca and Medina, close to the time of Mohammed, especially from the language of the Quresh. This will not be an easy task because much work has already been done on the clear Arabic, of the Quresh. The early Muslims understood intuitively, the need to know exactly what the Qur’anic words mean - And for this reason they make comprehensive studies of their language and poetry. Hence Abu Bakr, former Rector of ‘The Main Mask in ‘pairs’, brought up this subject at a conference, under one God in Munkalia, 1985. He posed the question to the audience…‘Has the comprehend of the text of the Qur’an, known at the time of Mohammed remained stable?’ And his answer was…‘Ancient poetry shows that it has’. We can only conclude…‘If the verses which bring spiritual comfort and hope to Muslims have remained stable, then the scientific statements embedded in those Verses, must also be accepted as stable, unless new evidence can be brought forward’. This is especially important, since some of the Verses say that this information is a sign. The Surah of ‘The Believers’ we saw above, says … ‘He it is, who created you from dust, then from a sperm drop, then from a clot… ‘Alaqa’ that perhaps you may understand’. And in the Surah of ‘The Pilgrimage’, He said… ‘O mankind! If you have doubt about the resurrection, consider. Therefore the question must be asked…‘If it was a clear sign to the men and women of Mecca and Medina, what did they understand from the word ‘Alaqa’ which would lead them to faith, in the resurrection?’ The answer : We are going to examine the historical situation leading up to the time of Mohammed, to see what Mohammed and his people believed about embryology. We will start with Apocrities. According to the best evidence, he was born on the Greek island of Kuss, in 460 B.C. And he has stages. His stages are as follows - The sperm is a product which comes from the whole body of each parent - Weak sperm coming from the weak parts and strong sperm from the strong parts. Then he goes ahead and talks about the coagulation of the mother’s blood. The seed embryo, then is contained in the membrane. Moreover it grows because of it’s mother’s blood, which descends to the womb - For once a woman conceives, she ceases to menstruate. Then about flesh - He says… ‘At this stage, with the descend in coagulation of the mother’s blood , flesh begins to be formed with the umbilicus. And lastly bones - He says…‘As the flesh grows it is formed in this distinct members, by breath. The bones grow hard, and send out ….branches like a tree. Next we will look at Aristotle. In his book on the generation of animals, sometime about 350 B.C., he gives his stages of embryology and he talks about ‘first semen’ and ‘menstrual blood’ or ‘catemania’. In this section, Aristotle speaks of the male semen, as being in a pure state. It follows, that what the female would contribute to the semen of the male, would be material for the semen to work on. In other words, the semen clots the menstrual blood. Then he goes to flesh. He says natural forms this from the purest material… ‘the flesh’, and from the residue there are, it forms bones. And lastly around the flesh around the bones, and attached to them by thin fibrous bands, grow the fleshly parts. Clearly, the Qur’an follows this exactly. Sperm clotting in the menstrual blood which forms meat - then the bones are formed and lastly around about the bones grow the fleshly parts. Next we will consider, Indian medicine. The opinion of Sharaka in 123 A.D., and Shushruta is that…“Both, the male and female contributed seed. The secretion of the male is called the sukra… semen. The secretion of the woman is called the Artava… sanita… blood. And it is derived from the blood by way of …..food, by way of blood” Here we see that in the mandeson of India, they too had the idea that the child was formed from semen and blood. Now we shall look at Galen. Galen was born in 131 A.D, in Bergamum - Modern Bergamum in Turkey. Galen says… Semen, the substance from which the fetus is formed, is not merely menstrual blood, as Aristotle maintained - But menstrual blood plus the two semen. The Qur’an agrees with Galen here, when it says in Surah 76:2, ‘We created man from a drop of mingled sperm’. Now we look at the Galen stages. Galen also taught that the embryo developed in stages. The first is that, in which the form of the semen prevails. The next stage is, when it has been filled with blood - And heart and brain and liver are still unarticulated and unshaped. This is the period that Hypocrites called ‘fetus’. The Qur’anic Surah 22:5 reflects this saying…‘Then out of a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed. And now the third period of gestation has come. This…. thus, nature caused flesh to grow on and around all the bones. We saw above that the Qur’an agrees with this. In Surah 23:14, where it says… ‘And We clothe the bones with meat’. The fourth and final period…Sorry, the fourth and final period, is at the stage when all the parts in the limbs have been differentiated. Galen was so important in medicine, that just about the time of the Hijra, 4 leading medical men in Alexandria, Egypt, decided to form a Medical School, using 16 books of Galen, as the basis of the studies. This continued up to, and including the 13th century. We must now ask ourselves - What was the political, economic and medical situation in Arabia, at the time of Mohammed? From the Hajramount in Yemen, the caravans of the spice trade past North, through Mecca and Medina, and then reached into all of Europe. In North Arabia, in about 500 A.D., the Gazaneeds took over, and by 528, they controlled the Cyrian deserts over to the outskirts of Medina. ‘Syraic’… a form of Aramaic, related to Arabic, was their official language. As early as 463, the Jews translated the Torah and Old Testament from Hebrew, into ‘Syriac’ - The British Museum has a copy.
This made it available to the Guscians, who were Christians and to the Jewish tribes in Arabia. During this time Syrgius Cyrra Cynie who died in Constantinople in 536, one of the earliest and greatest translators from Greek into Syraic, translated various works on medicine, including 26 works of Galen. This made them available in the kingdom of Kasrov I, in Persia and to the Ghasan tribe, whose influence extended to the outskirts of Medina. Kasrov I, Arabic Khisra, King of Persia, was known as Kasrov the great. His troops conquered areas as far away as Yemen - And he also loved learning, and started several - schools. The school of Jundi Shapueer became during Kasrov first’s long reign of 48 years - The greatest intellectual center of the time. Within it’s walls Greek, Jewish, Nostorian, Persian and Hindu thoughts and experience were freely exchanged. Teaching was done largely in Syriac - from Syraic translations of Greek texts. This method Aristotle, Hypocates and Galen were readily available when the Medical School of Jundi Shapaer was operating during his reign. The next step was that the conquering Arabs compelled the Nostorians to translate their Cyriac text of Greek medicine, into Arabic. The translation from Syriac to Arabic was easy, as the two languages had the same grammar. Considering the local medical situation during Mohammed’s life, we know there were physicians living in Arabia during this period. Harith bin Caladia was the best educated physician trained in the healing art. He was born about the middle of the 6th century at Taif, in the tribe of Bani Sakif. He travelled through Yemen, and then Persia, where he received his education in the Medical Sciences, at the great Medical School of Jundi Shapuer - And thus was intimately acquanted with the medical teachings af Aristotle, Hypocrates and Galen. Having completed his studies, he practiced as a Physician in Persia, and during this time he was called to the court of King Kusrov, with whom he had a long conversation. He came back to Arabia about the beginning of Islam, and settled down at Taif. While there, Abu Khair, a King of Yemen came to see him in connection with a certain disease, and on being cured, rewarded him with much money, and a slave girl. Though Harith bin Caladia did not write any book on Medicine, his views on many medical problems are still preserved in his conversation with Kasrov. About the eye, he says that it constituted of ‘fat’, which is the white spot. About the second is constituted with ‘water’, which is the black part. And of ‘wind’ which constitutes the eyesight. All these things we know to be wrong now - But this was Greek thought. All is goes to show the acquaintance of Harith with the Greek doctors. Summarising the situation in a few words in his book, ‘Eastward delamitry Arabs’, Dr. Lucaine La’ Clerk writes…Harith bin Caladia studied medicine in Jundi Shaperer, and Mohammed owed to Harith the part of his medical knowledge. Thus with the one as well as the other, we easily recognize the traces of Greek medicine. Sometimes Mohammed treated the sick, but in the difficult cases he would send the patients to Harith. Another educated person around Mohammed, was Laden bin Harith. Not related to the doctor - He was a Pershiate and cousin of Mohammed, and had also visited the court of Kosrov. He had learned Persian and music, which he introduced among the Quraish at Mecca. However he was not sympathetic to Mohammed - Marking some of the stories in the Qur’an. Mohammed never forgave him for this, and when he was taken prisoner in the battle of Badr, he caused him to be put to death. In summary we see that… 1) Arabs living in Mecca and Medina in 600, had political and economical relations with people from Ethiopia, Yemen, Persia and Byzantine. 2) A cousin of Mohammed, knew Persian well enough, to do his musical studies in it. 3) The Ghasine tribe which ruled the Syrian desert over to the gates of Medina, used Syriar…. one of the main languages used to teach medicine - And Jundi Shapuer is their official language. An ill king of Yemen came to Taif, to consult the physician Harith Bin Caladia, who had been trained well at Jindi Shapaer – the best medical school in that world, and to whom Mohammed sometimes send patients. 5) During Mohammed’s lifetime a new medical school was established in Alexandria, using the 16 books of Galen as their text. This source shows that there was ample opportunity for Mohammed and the people around him, to have heard the embryological theories of Aristotle, Apocratis and Galen, when they went to seek treatment from Harith bin Colada and other local doctors. Thus when the Qur’an says in the late Meccan Surah of ‘The Believer’, 40: 67…‘He it is who created you from dust, then from a sperm drop, then from a leach like clot, that perhaps you may understand’. And then in the Surah of ‘The Pilgrimage’… ‘O! Mankind! If you have doubt about the resurrection, consider that we have created you from dust’. It is correct for us to ask again, what were they to understand? What were they to consider? And here are the Qur’anic stages again - Nutfa… ‘sperm’, Alaqa… ‘clot’, Mudga… ‘piece of meat’, Azaam… bones. And… 5) dressing of bones with muscles.’ The answer is very clear - They were understanding and considering that which was common knowledge, the embryological stages as taught by the Greek physicians. I don’t mean that Mohammed’s listeners all knew the names of the Greek physicians - But they knew the embryological stages of the Greek physicians. But they knew the embryological stages of the Greek physicians. They believed that the male sperm mixed with the female menstrual blood to cause it to clot, and this became the baby. 2) They believed there was a time when the fetus was formed, and unformed. 3) They believed the bones formed first, and then was covered with muscles. Allah was using that common knowledge as a sign, encouraging the listeners and readers to turn to Him. The trouble is, that this common knowledge was, and is not true. Era of physicians after Mohammed. We must now look at two well-known Physicians, from the period after Mohammed. Obviously they had no effect on the Qur’an, but they demonstrated that faith, and the embryological ideas of Aristotle, Apocrates and Galen, continued among the Arabs right up to the sixteen hundreds. If the correct translation of Alaqa is ‘leach like substance’, as modern Muslims like Shabbir Ali claim, there is no place for these post Qur’anic doctors said so. In fact it is just the opposite. The ideas of these Greek Physicians were being used to explain the Qur’an, and the Qur’an was coded to enlighten the meaning of the Greek Physicians. The human being takes its origin from two - This is speaking about Evenesena or Avisena. The human being takes its origin from two things – the male sperm which plays the part of factor – the female sperm… first part of the menstrual blood, which provides the matter. Thus we see that Ibn Seena gave the female semen, exactly the same role that Aristotle has assigned to the menstrual blood. It is difficult to overstate the importance of Ibn Seena, as a scientific and philosophical authority, for the pre modern Europeans. Then we are going to look at Ibn Khaima Zaujia. Ibn Khaim took full advantage of the agreement between Qur’anic Revelation and Greek medicine. It is not very clear probably, but the Hippocrates is in purplish, and the Qur’an is an bold type green, and the Hadith is in purple, and commentaries are in red, and his own thoughts, in sort of a blue-green. So it starts out – He is giving - He says Hypocrites said, in the third Ch. of Kitab al-Ajinna….‘The semen is contained in a membrane, and it grows because of the blood of its mother, which descends to the womb. Some membranes are formed at the beginning, others after the second month and others in the third month’. And this phrase about the blood descending to the womb, we saw it when we looked at Hypocrites slide. That is why God said - Here in the Qur’an is mentioned…‘He creates you in the womb of your mothers, by one formation after another, in three darkness - That is Qur’an 39 : 6. Then he gives his own ideas…. ‘Since each of these membranes has its own darkness when God mentioned the stages of creation and transformation from one state to another, He also mentioned the darkness of the membranes’. Most commentators explain, and here are the words of the commentators…‘It is the darkness of the belly and the darkness of the womb and the darkness of the placenta. In a second example, we read, Hippocrates said…‘The mouth opens up spontaneously and the nose and ears are formed from the flesh. The ears are opened and the eyes which are filled with a clear liquid.’ The Prophet used to say… ‘I worship Him who made my face and formed it, and opened my hearing, and eye sight and …… and so forth. Here we look at Hippocrates again, and they are in the second stage - It is the same thing, which I read. Ibn Khaim is quoting Hippocrates, and speaks about the mother’s blood descends around the membrane.
He could do this as we have seen, because the educated people of Mohammed’s time were familiar with Greek medicine. However what is important for us here today to realize is, that there is no place where the Qur’an corrected Greek medicine. There is no place for Ibn Khaim shouting…“Hey you guys you got it this all wrong - the correct meaning of ‘Alaga’ is, ‘that which clings’, or ‘leach’ like substance.” On the other contrary, even Khaima is demonstrating the agreement between the Qur’an and the Greek medicine - Their agreement in error. A final witness is the commentary of Badawi in 1200 A.D. - Here we have the commentary. We have the… we have the Qur’an here, we have his commentary, and here it is being translated. And he says then from ‘Alaqa’…‘a piece of solid blood’, is his explanation of ‘Alaqa’, ‘Alaqa’ is underlined - that is from the Qur’an. And here is his explanation… ‘A piece of solid blood.’ Then he goes on… ‘Then from a piece of meat’ - from the Qur’an. ‘A piece of meat originally as much as can be chewed, and so forth.’ As I mentioned in the beginning of the study, it is been said that the idea of the embryo developing through stages, is a modern one and that the Qur’an is anticipating modern embryology, by depicting different stages. Yet we have seen that Aristotle, Hippocrates, the Indians and Galen have all discussed the stages of embryological development, during the thousand years before the Qur’an. And after the coming of the Qur’an, the court of the different stages, as described by the Qur’an and the Greek doctors, was carried on in the teachings of Abisenia and Ibn Khaim - and is essentially the same as that taught by Galen, and those preceding him. Concerning the bone stage, it is clear as Dr. Moore demonstrated so capably is his text book that muscles start forming from the Semites, at the same time as the cartilage models of the bone. There is no bone stage where there is a skeleton sitting here, and then and then the muscles are plastered around it. It is equally clear that ‘Alaqa’ in the Qur’an, means ‘clot’ - and that the Quraish who heard Mohammed speaking, understood him to be referring to the menstrual blood, as the female contribution to the developing baby. Therefore we can conclude that during all these years, the Qur’anic Verses on embryology, saying that man is created from a drop of sperm, which becomes the clot, were in perfect record with the science of the 1st century of the Hijra, of the time of the Qur’an. But when compared with the modern science of the 20th century, Hippocrates is in error, Aristotle is in error, Galen is in error, and the Qur’an is in error - They are all in serious error. Now we are going to look a little bit about, ‘moon light.’ Does the Qur’an state that…‘The moon gives off reflected light from the sun’, before his was common knowledge ? In the Surah Noor, 71 : 15 - 16, it says… ‘See ye not how Allah has created the seven heavens, one above another and made the moon a light…‘Nur’ in their midst, and made the sun as a lamp…‘Siraj.’ The moon is called a ‘light’…Arabic ‘Nur’ - and the sun a lamp -‘Siraj’. Some Muslims claim that since the Qur’an uses different words, speaking from about the light of the sun, and the light of the moon, it reveals that the sun is a source of light, while the moon only reflects light. This claim is implied very strongly by Shabbir Ali in his booklet…‘Science in the Qur’an’ - and stated clearly by Dr. Zakir Naik in his Video - ‘Is the Qur’an God’s Word’ as you will now see clearly.
(Dr. Zakir Video Clipping) “The light that we have… the light that we obtain from the moon - where does it come from? So he will tell me that previously we thought that the light of the moon was its own light. But today after science has advanced, we have come to know that the light of the moon is not its own light, but a reflected light of the sun. I will asked him a question, that its is mentioned in this Qur’an, in Surah Al- Furqaan, Ch. No..25, Verse No.61…‘Blessed is He, who has created the constellation and placed therein a lamp and a moon which has reflected light. The Arabic word for moon is ‘Qamar’, and the light described there is ‘Munir’- which is borrowed light, or ‘Nur’, which is a ‘reflection of light.’ The Qur’an mentions that the light of the moon is reflected light. You say you discovered it today? …How come it is mentioned in the Qur’an 1400 years ago? He will pause for a time - He won’t reply immediately and then he may say…‘May be, may be it is a fluke.’ I don’t argue with him for sake…..”
(Dr. Campbell) Near the end of the video we heard Dr. Naik explain the Arabic word for ‘moon’ is ‘Qamar’, and the light described there is ‘Munir’, which is ‘borrowed light’ or ‘Nur’, which is a reflection of light.’ Please do not forget what he said… ‘Munir is borrowed light, and Nur is reflected light.’ Not only is this claim to be a statement in keeping with scientific truth, but it also claimed to be scientifically miraculous, since this was supposedly only discovered relatively, recently. It is correct that the moon does not emit its own light, but only reflects the light of the sun - But this was known already almost a thousand years before Mohammed. Aristotle in about 360 BC discussed, knowing that the earth was round, by its shadow on the moon. He could only speak of the Earth’s shadow crossing the Moon, if he knew that Moon’s light is reflected light. If you still insist that this is a miracle of scientific knowledge, then we must ask ourselves…‘Do the Qur’anic words themselves support this claim?’ ‘Siraj’ - first we shall look at ‘Siraj.’ In Surah Nur which was read above, in Surah Al Furqaan, 25 : 61, it is simply ‘lamp’… referring to the Sun. In Surah Naba, 78:13, ‘Siraj Wahjan’ means ‘a dazling lamp’, again indicating the Sun. The words ‘Nur’ and ‘Munir’ comes from the same Arabic word - root. The word Munir is used 6 times in the Qur’an 4 times Suratul Imran, 3 : 184, Al Haj 22 : 8, Lukman 31: 20 and Fatir 35 : 35. It is the phrase ‘Kitabul Munir’, which Yusuf Ali translates as… ‘A book of enlightenment’ and Picktall uses… ‘The Scripture giving light.’ Clearly this indicates a book which is radiating the light of knowledge. Nothing about ‘reflection’… ‘Nur’. It says in Surah Nur, 71:16 and Yunus, 10:5 that… ‘Allah made the light… the Moon a light.’ Thus we find that the Qur’an says that the Moon is a light, and it never says that the Moon reflects light. Moreover in other Verses, the Qur’an says that… ‘Allah is a Nur… a light.’ Surah Nur, 24:35, one of the most beautiful passages in the Qur’an reads… ‘Allah is the light… Nur of the Heavens and the Earth. The parable of His light, is as if there was a niche and within it a lamp, the lamp enclosed in glass. The glass as it was a brilliant star and so forth.’ Thus we see that the word ‘Nur’ is used for both, ‘the moon’ and ‘Allah.’ Are we going to say that Allah gives off reflected light? I think not. But if you continue to insist that ‘Nur’ used for the Moon, means ‘borrowed’ or ‘reflected light’, and we saw above, that Allah is ‘the light’… Nur of the Heavens and the Earth - What is the source of this light? ‘Siraj’, of which Allah is only a reflection. Think about it - If Allah is named ‘Nur’ or a ‘reflected light’… who or what, is the ‘Siraj’? Well the Qur’an tells us who the ‘Siraj’ is - But the answer will shock you. In Surah Al Ahzab, 33:45, 46 we find… ‘O Prophet! Surely We have send thee as a witness - A bearer of glad tidings and a warner, and as a lamp spreading light. Here it says that Mohammed is the lamp spreading light. In Arabic it is ‘Sirajaan Munira’ Linguistically and spiritually, this is the end of the discussion. Linguistically ‘Siraj’ and the adjective ‘Moon’ here are used together for the same shining thing - the person Mohammed. It is clear ‘Munir’ does not mean reflected light in this verse – or in any other verse. It means shining. The people of Mohammed’s time understood that the Moon was shining, and they were right. Just as the people of Moses’ time understood that the Sun was the greater light, and the Moon the lesser light, and they were right. But if you insist, the Arabic words ‘Nur’ and ‘Moon’ here mean reflected light, then based on the use of these words in the Qur’an, Mohammed is like the ‘Sun’ and ‘Allah’ is like the ‘Moon.’ Does Dr. Naik really want to say that Mohammed is the source of Light, and Allah is only his reflection? Why are these so called scientific claims made, which no Muslim can support, if he make a serious study of his own Qur’an. In a dialogue like tonight it makes an honest discussion very difficult - almost impossible. Let us go on and look at the water cycle. Some Muslim authors claim that the Qur’an shows pre scientific knowledge of water cycle. What is the water cycle? Here in this slide, you see four steps. The first step is evaporation - The water evaporates from the seas and the earth. Second step – it becomes clouds. Third step – it gives rain. And fourth – this rain causes the plants to grow. Seems all very straight forward, and everybody knows 2, 3 and 4. Even if they live in a town, they know that clouds come and rain comes, and their flowers grow. But what about step one – ‘the evaporation.’ We cannot see it - It is difficult. And the Qur’an does not have step one. Now we are going to look at a Prophet from the Bible - Prophet from 700 B.C… Prophet Amos And he writes… ‘He who made the Pleiades and Orion, Who turns blackness into dawn, and darkens day into night, and then Who calls out for the waters, of the sea.’… Stage one. And pours them out over the face of the land… stage three - The Lord (Yahweh) is His name. And one other Prophet is Job, in 36:26-28, at least a thousand years before the Hijra. He says… ‘How great is God – beyond our understanding! The number of his years is past finding out. Stage one – He draws up the drops of water which distill from the mist as rain -that is stage three And then the clouds are mentioned – Stage two - Which pour down their moisture and abundant showers fall on mankind. So here in the Bible, this difficult stage one, is there for more than a thousand years, before the Qur’an. Now let us go on and look at Mountains. The Qur’an has more than a dozen Verses stating that God placed firm and unmovable mountains on the Earth. And in some of these Verses, the mountains are listed as either a blessing for believers, or a warning for the unbelievers. One example of this is found in the Surah Luqman, 31:10,11, where the mountains are one of five warnings. It says… ‘He has created the heavens. Says… ‘He has created the heavens without support, that you can see, and has cast aalqa onto the earth…‘firm mountain’–‘Rawaasiya’, lest it should shake with you. In ‘The Prophets’… Al-Ambiya, 21:31, as one of seven warnings we read… ‘And We have set on the earth, firm mountains lest it should shake with you….. with them.’Finally in ‘The Bee’… Nahl, 16:15, says that… ‘He has cast ‘aalga’ onto the earth… ‘firm mountains’ ‘Rawaasiya’, lest it should shake with you. We see then that the believers and the Non-believers are told, that Allah has done this great thing - He strolled down and placed the mountains, so that the earth will not shake violently with them. Therefore we must ask ourselves… ‘What did they understand ?’ In the next two Verses, another picture is given, ‘The News’, Al-Naba 78 : 6-7… “Have We not made the Earth an expanse, and the mountains as stakes ‘Al – jebaala awtaad’, as those used to anchor a tent in the ground. And then ‘The Overwhelming’ Al-Ghashiya, 88:17-19… ‘Do they…the unbelievers not look at the mountains… ‘Al-jibaal’… how they have been pitched like a tent.’ Here men are told that the mountains are placed as tent pegs -Tent pegs keep the tents, stable. So again the idea is put forward that the pegs… the mountains will keep the earth from shaking. A third picture is presented in the word ‘Rawaasiya’, used for mountains. This word comes from the Arabic root ‘Arsa.’ And the same root is used for the Arabic word for ‘anchor.’ To ‘throw out’ or ‘cast the anchor’ is aalgaa almirsaa. So instead of ‘Cast the anchor to keep the ship from moving’ - ‘We have cast the mountains, to keep the earth from shaking’. From these pictures, it is clear that Mohammed’s followers understood that the mountains were thrown down like tent pegs, to keep a tent in place like an anchor to hold the ship in place - To stop the earth from moving or limit earthquakes.
But in fact this is false - the forming of mountains causes earthquake. Therefore these Verses present a definite problem. Dr. Maurice Bucaile recognised this, and discussed them in his book… ‘The Bible, the Qur’an and Science.’ After quoting the above Verses about ‘Mountains’, he says… ‘Modern Geologists described the faults in the Earth, as giving foundations to the mountains, and the stability of the Earth’s crust results from this phenomenon of these faults. When asked about this, Professor of Geology, Dr. David A. Young says… ‘While it is true that many mountain ranges are composed of folded rocks and the folds maybe of large scale, it is not true that the folds render the crust stable. The very existence of the fold, is evidence of instability in the crust.’ In other words, mountains don’t keep the earth from shaking - their formation caused and still causes the surface of the earth to shake. Geological theories of the present time propose, that the hardened crust of the earth is made of sections and plates, which slowly move with relation to each other. Sometimes the plates separate, like North and South America, separating from Europe and South Africa. And some times they go together and they slide next to each other, and they bump into each other, and then they cause earthquakes. An example of this type of mountain formation is found in the Middle East, where the migration of Arabia towards Iran, has resulted in the zygross range in Iran. In many parts of the world, as one travels along the roads, one sees a hillside, where the sand storm layers which were horizontal when they were deposited, are now sticking up at angles. And so here you can see, these sand storm layers, which were horizontal in the beginning, now they are striking up at 75 degrees. They were pushed up there by an earthquake, by the mountains being formed. Sometimes the plates get caught on each other and starts sliding - During this period, great forces are built up. When the forces of friction are overcome, the piece of plate that was stuck, lurches forward, causing a shock wave of a thrust quake, and then all of a sudden it goes ‘dumm’ like this. In a recent earthquake, it was calculated that the Coco Splade in Mexico, suddenly jumped forward 3 meters. Well if your house suddenly jump 3 meters, there will be a Catastrophe. Another type of mountain is that formed by volcanoes. Lava and ash from inside the earth are thrown out and piled up, until a high mountain is formed - Even from the bottom of the sea. And we can see this kind of action in this picture. I hope you can see it - Not clear is it? The ocean crust is right here and the continental crust is there, and the oceanic crust is going down under the continental crust, and mountains have been found here. Here is the volcano, and here is the magma of the molted rock, going up through the volcano, and here is another volcano with magma going up. And so this is how the mountains are formed and earthquakes are formed. In the case of some igneous mountains, molten rock intrudes into the probe of the volcano’s opening and cools, to form a relatively dense intrusion, which extends below the surface of the earth. So this… if this gets stuck and sealed, then it would be like a plug - However it is not a root. It does not bear the weight of the mountain - It is really a plug. Therefore at occasions, pressure builds up under the plug, and the volcano explodes as happened in the South Pacific at Crackato, in 1883 when the whole island was blown away. And it happened at Mount Saint Halena in Ardase, when a mountain was blown away. We can conclude from this information, that mountains were formed originally with movement and shaking, and that now in the present, earthquakes are caused by their continued formation. When the plates buckle over each other, there are earthquakes - When the volcanoes erupt there can bring earthquake. However it is clear that the followers of Mohammed were understanding these Verses, to say that Allah threw the mountains down, as a tent peg or anchors, to keep the Earth from shaking. Throwing the mountains down under the Earth may be poetry, but to say that mountains keep the Earth from shaking, is a severe difficulty, which is out of step with modern science. Now we are going to take a little look at what the Sun says about… what the Qur’an says about the ‘Sun.’ In the Surah of the Kahf, 18:86, it says… ‘Until when Zulqarnain… that is Alexandra the great, reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water.’ I’m sorry - In 20th Century Science...20th Century Science... the Sun does not set in a spring of murky water. And then in ‘The Criterion’, Al Furqaan, 25:45 to 46, it says… ‘Hast thou not turned thy vision, to thy Lord - how He prolongs the shadow! If He willed, He could make it stationary! Then do We (God) make the sun its guide.” What about this? Has the sun… if we think of the sun overhead, you have no shadow or a little tiny shadow, and then as the sun goes down, your shadow gets longer on the other side. Well the sun is stationary in relation to the Earth - It is not what causes the shadow to shift. The rotating Earth guides the shadows. So if you demand 20th century accuracy, the Surah should say… ‘The rotating earth causes the shadows to change. I would look at a different subject… ‘Solomon’s death.’ Whether this is Science, I don’t know -May be sociology. Solomon’s death – He is popped up on his staff. Says… ‘The jinn worked for him, as Solomon desired. ‘Then when We decreed death upon Solomon, nothing showed them his death, except a little creeping creature of the earth, which gwaned away his staff. And when he fell, the jinn saw clearly how - If they had known the unseen, they would not have continued in the humiliating penalty of work. So here Solomon… he’s dead, propped up on his staff, like a walker from Morocco overseeing only a road gay, and no cook comes to ask him…what he wants for dinner. And no General comes for orders, and none of his Nobles comes to say… ‘Lets go hunting.’ No one notices. I’m sorry - I do not believe this story and it won’t fit 20th century Sociology, or 7th century Sociology, where the king will never be left alone like that. Now finally let us look at ‘Milk.’ It says in the Surah of ‘The Bee’, Nahl, 16:66… ‘We pour out to you from what is within their (the cattle’s) abdomen, between excretions and blood – milk, pure and agreeable to the drinkers.’ The abdomen where the intestines are…. Sorry - In 20th century medical science, the abdomens where the intestines are… is where the intestines are - the mammary glands are under the skin. In humans they are under the skin here - In cattle they are under the skin between the legs. No connection - There is no connection between the breasts and the intestines, and the their faces, in any way. Faces though in the body, it really is outside of the animal - Animals has finished with it. It is not connected to milk or to anything else. And finally going to look at ‘Communities.’ The Surah of ‘The Cattle’, Al – Anam 6:38, ‘There is not an animal on the earth, nor a being that flies on two wings, but forms communities like you…. Speaks about no animal on earth, not a being that flies, and then it says, that every one of them is communities like you - And I assume that the Qur’an is speaking about we humans. Well, in some Spiders, when they finishes mating, the mother eats the father. Well I’m glad that my wife did not eat me. Even in Bees, the extra male Drones are thrown out to die. Well I’m glad also that after we had four children, that my wife did not push me out of the house too. Finally, the Lions. When the Lion gets old, the male Lion gets old, a young lion comes along and drives him away from his own wives, and the young lion takes over the wives. But what he does with the cubs? The cubs of the old lion – he kills them all. So I do not think that this stance is true all other communities and all other animals do not live as communities like us. In conclusion it is clear that the Qur’an has many scientific errors. As a generality the Qur’an meets and reflects the science of its time - the science of the 7th century AD. We came here to seek truth - I’ve done my best to present valid information. If you want to see all the references, my book… ‘The Qur’an and the Bible in the light of History and Science’, is for sale outside that door, at a bargain price, tonight. May the God of all truth, guide you - Thank you.
(Dr. Mohammed) Thank you Dr Campbell for your presentation. Now we have Br. Sabeel Ahmed presenting an introduction of our next speaker, Dr. Zakir Naik.
(Br Sabeel Ahmed) As Salaam Alaikum Wa Rahmatullah. It is my pleasure to introduce one of the best scholars of our time, Dr. Zakir Abdul Karim Naik. Age 34 years old, he is the president of Islamic Research Foundation, Bombay, India. Though a medical doctor by professional training, Dr. Zakir Naik is known as a dynamic international orator, in Islam and comparative Religion. Dr. Zakir Naik clarifies Islamic view points, and clears misconceptions about Islam, based upon the Qur’an, Hadith and the other Religious Scriptures, as well as adhering to reason logic and scientific facts.
He is popular for his critical analysis and convincing answers to challenging questions posed by audiences, after his public talks. In the last four years itself, Dr. Zakir Naik has delivered more than 400 public lectures world wide, in addition to many public talks in India. He appears regularly on many international TV and Satellite TV channel programs in several countries of the world. He has authored books on Islam and comparative Religion. He has also participated in several symposiums and dialogues, with prominent personalities of other Religious faiths.
(Dr. Mohammed) May I announce, after the talks by both the speakers and the response session, we would be having an open Question and Answer session. So those who have come late, kindly note, we’ll have questions on the mikes, followed by questions on index cards. Ladies and gentlemen, may I call upon Dr. Zakir Naik to present his talk.
(Dr. Zakir) …(Arabic)… Respected Dr. William Campbell, Dr. Maracuss, Dr. Jamal Badavi, Br. Samuel Nauman, Dr. Mohammed Naik, my respected elders and my dear brothers and sisters, I welcome all of you with the Islamic greetings… ‘As Salaamo Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barkatahu. May peace mercy and blessings of Allah Subhanawataala be on all of you. The topic of today’s dialogue is ‘The Qur’an and the Bible in the light of Science.’ The Glorious Qur’an is the last and final Revelation which was revealed to the last and final Messenger Prophet Mohammed, peace be upon him. For any book to claim that it is a Revelation from Almighty God, it should stand the test of time. Previously in the olden days, it was the age of miracles - Alhamdulillah, the Qur’an is the miracle of miracles. Later on came the age of literature and poetry, and Muslims and Non Muslims alike, they claim the Glorious Qur’an to be the best Arabic literature available on the face of the Earth. But today is the age of science and technology. Let us analyze whether the Qur’an is compatible or incompatible with modern science. Albert Einstein said… ‘Science without Religion is lame, and Religion without Science is blind’. Let me remind you that the Glorious Qur’an is not a book of Science…S-C-I-E-N-C-E, It is a book of signs S-I-G-N-S… It is a book of Ayats. And there more than 6000 signs… Ayats in the Glorious Qur’an out of which more than a thousand speak about science. As far as my talk regarding Qur’an and Science is concerned, I will only be speaking about scientific facts which has been established. I will not be speaking about scientific hypothesis and theories, which are based on assumption without any proof, because we all know many a times science takes U-turns. Dr. William Campbell who wrote a reply to the book of Dr. Maurice Bucaille… ‘The Qur’an and the Bible in the light of history and science’ - He says in his book, that there are two types of approaches. One is a concordance approach - Which means a person tries to bring compatibility between the Scripture and science. And the other is the conflict approach, in which a person tries to bring a conflict between Scripture and science, like how Dr. William Campbell has done very well. But as far as the Qur’an is concerned, irrespective whether a person uses a conflicting approach, or a concordance approach – As long as you are logical, and after a logical explanation is given to you, not a single person will be able to prove a single Verse of the Qur’an, in conflict with established modern science. Dr. William Campbell has pointed out various alleged scientific errors in the Qur’an, and I am supposed to actually refute in the rebuttal. But since he chose to speak first, I will be refuting a few points in my talk - I will reply to the major part of his talk, mainly dealing with Embryology and with Geology. The remaining InshaAllah, InshaAllah, I will try my level best to reply in the rebuttal. I have to do both - I cannot do injustice to the topic. The topic is… ‘Qur’an and Bible in the light of Science.’ I cannot only speak about one Scripture - Dr. William Campbell hardly spoke about one or two points about the Bible, which I will deal with InshaAllah. I will speak about both InshaAllah, - I want to do justice to the topic. As far as Qur’an and modern Science is concerned, in the field of ‘Astronomy’, the Scientists, the Astronomers, a few decades earlier, they described, how the universe came into existence - They call it the ‘Big Bang’. And they said… ‘Initially there was one primary nebula, which later on it separated with a Big Bang, which gave rise to Galaxies, Stars, Sun and the Earth, we live in.’ This information is given in a nutshell in the Glorious Qur’an, in Surah Ambiya, Ch. 21, Verse No. 30, which says…. (Arabic).... Do not the unbelievers see…? …. (Arabic)…. ‘That the heavens and the earth were joined together, and we clove them asunder.’ Imagine this information which we came to know recently, the Qur’an mentions 14 hundred years ago. When I was in school, I had learned that the Sun in respect to the Earth - it was stationary - the Earth and the Moon, they rotated about in axis, but the sun was stationary. But when I read a Verse of the Qur’an saying, in Surah Al–Ambiya, Ch.. 21 Verse No. 33, it says…. (Arabic). … ‘It is Allah who has created the night and the day.’…. (Arabic)…. The sun and the moon…. (Arabic)…. Each one travelling in an orbit with its own motion. Now Alhamdulillah, modern science has confirmed the Qur’anic statement. The Arabic word used in the Qur’an is ‘Yasbahoon’, which describes the motion of a moving body. When it refers to a celestial body, it means it is rotating about its own axis. So Qur’an says the sun and the Moon, they revolve as well as rotate about their own axis. Today we have come to know that the Sun takes approximately 25 days to complete one rotation. It was Edvin Hubbel who discovered that the universe is expanding. The Qur’an says in Surah Dhariyat, Ch. 51, Verse No. 47, that…‘We have created the expanding universe’ - The vastness of space. The Arabic word ‘Mohsiana’ refers to ‘vastness’ – ‘the expanding universe.’ Regarding the topics on Astronomy, which Dr. William Campbell touched, I will deal in the rebuttal, InshaAllah. In the field of ‘Water cycle, Dr. William Campbell pointed out, certain things. The Qur’an describes the water cycle in great detail. And Dr. William Campbell mentioned 4 stages. In his book he mentions 4 (a) and (b) - the last one he did not mention in the slide - I don’t know why? It says... ‘The Driplinition’…‘The Water table.’ He missed out here - Maybe because it was not mentioned in the Bible. He said there is not a single Verse in the Qur’an, which speaks about ‘evaporation.’ Qur’an says in Surah Al-Tariq, Ch. No. 86, Verse No. 11, that….(Arabic)…. ‘By the capacity of the heavens to return.’ And almost all the commentaries of the Qur’an - they said, that this Verse of Surah Tariq, Ch. No. 86, Verse No. 11, refers to the capacity of the heavens to return back rain - meaning ‘Evaporation.’ Dr. William Campbell who knows Arabic, may say…‘Why did not Allah Subhanawa Taala specifically mention….(Arabic) …. Meaning… ‘The capacity of the heavens to return back rain.’ Why did not Allah mention specifically? Now we have came to know why did not Allah do that, in His Divine wisdom. Because today we have came to know that besides - the Ozonosphere… the layer above the earth - Besides returning back rain, it even returns back other beneficial matter and energy of the Earth, which is required by the human beings. It does not only return back rain - Today we have come to know, it even returns back waves of Telecommunication, of Television, of Radio, by which we can see TV, we can communicate, we can hear the radio. And besides that, it even returns back the harmful rays of the outer space, back on the other side, and absorbs. For example the sun light… the ultraviolet rays of the Sun light is absorbed by the Ionosphere. If this was not done, life on the Earth would have ceased to exist. So Allah Subhanawataala is far superior and for more accurate, when He says…. (Arabic)…. By the capacity of the Heaven to return.’ And the remaining things as he mentioned is there in the Qur’an - You can refer to my Videocassette. The Qur’an describes the ‘Water cycle’ in great detail. Regarding what he said about the Bible, he showed stage 1 and stage 3 in the first slide, and in the second stage 1, 3, and then 2. ‘That the rain water is taken up’… he says… ‘and then the rain water comes down on the Earth.’ This is the philosophy of Phasofmillitas, in 7th century BC. He thought that the spray of the ocean was picked up by the wind, and send to the interior as rain. There is no cloud mentioned there. In the second quotation Dr. William Campbell gave - First is, according to him, ‘evaporation’ which we agree. We don’t mind having the concordance approach with the Bible. ‘…Then rain falls down, and then are the clouds formed.’ - That is not the complete water cycle. Alhamdulillah, the Qur’an describes the water cycle in great detail, in several places. How does the water rise, evaporates, forms into clouds - the clouds join together, they stalk up, there is thunder and lightning, water comes down, the clouds move into the interior, they fall down as rain, and the evaporation of the water table and Alhamdulillah in great detail. The Qur’an speaks about the water cycle in great detail, in several places. In Surah Nur, Ch. No. 24, Verse No. 43, in Surah Rum, Ch. No. 30, Verse 48, in Surah Al-Zumar, Ch. 39, Verse 21, in Surah Muminun, Ch. 23, Verse 18, in Surah Rum Ch. No. 30, Verse No. 24, in Surah Al-Hijr, Ch. 15, Verse No. 22, in Surah Araf Ch. No. 7, Verse No. 57, in Surah Rad, Ch. No. 13, Verse No. 17, in Surah Furqan, Ch. 25, Verse No. 48 and 49, in Surah Fatir, Ch. No. 35, Verse No. 9, in Surah Yasin, Ch. 36, Verse No. 34, in Surah Jathiya, Ch. 45, Verse No. 5, in Surah Qaf, Ch. No. 50, Verse No. 9, in Surah Al-Waqiah, Ch. No. 56, Verse No. 68 and 70, in several places, Surah Al-Mulk,Ch. 67, Verse No. 30, the Glorious Qur’an speaks about the ‘Water cycle’, in great detail. Dr. William Campbell spent maximum time on Embryology’… about half his talk - quite a lot on Geology - and touched on other six topics - I’ve noted down. In the field of Geology, we have come to know today - the Geologists, they tell us, that the radius of the Earth is approximately 3750 miles, and the deeper layers, they are hot and fluid, and cannot sustain life. And the superficial part of the Earth’s crust, which we live on, it is very thin - Hardly 1 to 30 miles. Some portions are thicker, but majority one to 30 miles. And there are high possibility that this superficial layer, the Earth’s crust - it will shake. It is due to the ‘Folding phenomenon’, which gives rise to mountain ranges, which gives stability to this Earth. And Qur’an says in Surah Nabaa, Ch. No. 78, Verse No. 6 and 7…‘We have made the Earth as an expanse…. (Arabic) ….and the mountains as stakes.’ The Qur’an does not say, mountains were thrown up as stakes… mountain as stakes. Arabic word ‘Autaad’ means ‘stakes’… meaning ‘tent peg’. And today we have come to know in the study of modern Geology, that mountain has got deep roots. This was known in the second half of the 19th century. And the superficial part that we see of the mountain, is a very small percentage. The deeper part is within - Exactly like a stake how it is driven in the ground. You can only see a small part on top… the majority is down in the ground - or like a tip of the ice berg…you can see the tip on the top and about 90% is beneath water. The Qur’an says in Surah Gashiya, Ch. 88, Verse No. 19, and Surah Naziat, Ch. No. 79, Verse No. 32 ….. (Arabic) …. And We have made the mountains standing firm on the Earth’ - Made the mountains standing firm on the Earth. Today after modern Geology has advanced, and Dr. William Campbell said that… ‘By the theory of Platectonics - It was propounded in 1960, which gives rise to mountain ranges.’ The Geologists today, do say that the mountains give stability to the Earth - Not all Geologists, but many do say. I have not come across a single Geological book, and I challenge Dr. William Campbell to produce a single Geological book - Not his personal correspondence with the Geologist. That does not carry weight. His personal correspondence with Dr. Keith Moore …. Documented proof. And if you read the book ‘The Earth’ which is referred by almost all the universities, in the field of Geology, one of its authors by the name of Dr Frank Press, who was the advisor to the former president of USA, Jimmy Carter, and was the president of the Academy of Science of USA. He writes in his book that…‘The mountains are wedge shaped - It has deep roots within. And he says that…‘The function of the mountain is to stabilize the earth.’ And the Qur’an says in Surah Ambiya, Ch. No 21, Verse No. 31, in Surah Luqman, Ch. No. 31 Verse No.10, as well as in Surah Nahl, Ch. No. 16, Verse No. 15, that…‘We have made the mountains standing firm on the Earth, lest it would shake with them and with you.’ The function of the mountain in the Qur’an, is given to prevent the Earth from shaking. Nowhere does the Qur’an say that the mountain prevents the earthquake. And Dr. William Campbell said - He writes in his book, and even the talk, that… ‘You find in the mountains regions, there are various earthquakes, and mountains cause earthquake.’ Point to be noted - Nowhere does the Qur’an say that mountains prevent earthquake. The Arabic word for ‘earthquake’ as Dr. William Campbell knows Arabic, is ‘zilzaal’ or ‘zalzala’- But the words used in these three Verses I quoted, it is ‘Tamida.’ ‘Tamida’ means ‘to shake’, ‘to ‘sway’, ‘to swing.’ And Qur’an says in Surah Luqman, Ch. 31, Verse No. 10, as well as Surah Nahl, Ch. No. 16 Verse No. 15…‘We have put on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it would shake with you. It is ‘tamide bikum’…‘Shake with you’, Indicating, if the mountains were not there, if you would have walked, if you would have moved, even the earth would have moved with you - If you would have swayed, even the earth would have swayed with you. And we know normally when we walk on the Earth, the Earth does not shake, and the reason for this is, according to Dr. Frank Press and Dr. Najjat who is from Saudi Arabia, and he wrote a full book on the Geological concepts in the Qur’an, answering almost every thing what Dr. William Campbell has said - in detail. And Dr. William Campbell in his book, he writes that…‘If mountains prevent the shaking of the earth, then how come you find earthquakes in the mountains regions.’ I said, No where does the Qur’an say, mountains prevent earthquake. Earthquake is ‘zilzaal’ - and if you see the definition in the Oxford dictionary, it says… Earthquake is due to convulsion of the superficial crust of the Earth, due to relief of compressed Siesmic waves, due to crack in the rock, or due to volcanic reaction. The Qur’an speaks about ‘zalzala’ in Surah Zalzaal, Ch. 99 - But here it speaks about ‘tamida bikum’- ‘to prevent the earth from shaking with you.’ And in reply to the statement…‘That if mountains prevent earthquakes, how come you find earthquakes in mountainous regions ?’ The reply is, that - If I say that medical doctors, they prevent the sickness and disease in a human being, and if someone argues…‘If doctors prevent the sickness and diseases in a human being, how come you find more sick people in the hospitals, where there are more doctors than at home - where there are no doctors.’ In the field of Oceanology, the Glorious Qur’an says, in Surah Furqan, Ch. No. 25, Verse No. 53, that…‘It is Allah who has let free two bodies of following water - One sweet and palatable, the other salt and bitter. Though they meet, they do not mix. Between them there is a barrier which is forbidden to be trespassed. Qur’an says in Surah Rahman, Ch. 55 Verse No. 19 and 20……. (Arabic) ……‘It is Allah who has let free two bodies of flowing water. Though they meet, they do not mix. Between them there is barrier, which is forbidden to be trespassed.’ Previously the commentators of the Qur’an wondered…‘What does the Qur’an mean? We know about sweet and salt water - But between them there is a barrier - though they meet do not mix. Today after advancement of Oceanology, we have come to know, that whenever one type of water flows into the other type of water, it looses its constituents, and gets homogenized into the water it flows. There is a slanting homogenizing area, which the Qur’an refers to as ‘Barzak’ ‘unseen barrier’ And this has been agreed upon by several Scientists, even of America, by the name of Dr. Hay - he is an Oceanologist. And Dr. William Campbell writes in his book that…‘It is an observable phenomena. The fisherman of that time knew there were two types of water… salt and sweet So Prophet Mohammed during an expedition to Syria, he may have gone in the sea, or he might have spoken to these fishermen.’ Sweet and salt water is an observable phenomenon, I agree - But people did not know that there was an unseen barrier, until recently. The Scientific point to be noted here is the ‘Barzak’ - not the sweet and the salt water. In the field of Embryology, Dr. William Campbell spent approximately half of his talk on that. Time will not permit me to reply to every small thing which are illogical. I’ll just give a brief reply, which will be satisfactory InshaAllah. And for more details, you can refer to my Video cassette – ‘Qur’an and Modern Science’, and my other cassettes on… ‘Qur’an and Medical Science.’ There were a group of Arabs who collected the data dealing in the Qur’an about ‘Embryology’ and the Hadith dealing with Embryology. And they presented it to Professor Keith Moore, who was the chairman and the head of the department of ‘Anatomy’, in the university of Toronto, in Canada - And at present he is one of the leading scientist in the field of ‘Embryology.’ After reading the various translations of the Qur’an, he was asked to comment, and he said… ‘Most of the Verses of the Qur’an and the Hadith, are in perfect conformity with Modern Embryology. But there are a few Verses which I cannot say that they are right neither can I say that they are wrong, because I myself don’t know about it. And two such Verses were the first two Verses of the Qur’an to be revealed, from Surah Iqra or Surah Alaq , Ch. 96 Verses No. 1 and 2 which says…(Arabic)… ‘Read, recite or proclaim in the name of thy Lord, Who created, Who created the human beings from something which clings - a leech like substance. Regarding Dr. William Campbell’s statement that…‘To analyse the meaning of a word, we have to see what was the meaning at that time when it was revealed’-At that time when the book was written. And he rightly said that to analyze the meaning, we have to analyze the meaning at the time it was revealed, and to the people whom it was meant for. As far as this statement of his is concerned, regarding the Bible, I do agree with it totally - Because the Bible was only meant for the children of Israel, for that time. It is mentioned in the Gospel of Mathew, Ch. No. 10, Verse No. 5 and 6, Jesus Christ peace be upon him tells his disciples… ‘Go ye not in the way of the Gentiles.’ Who are the Gentiles? The Non-Jews, the Hindus, the Muslims ‘But rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.’ Jesus Christ peace be upon him said in the Gospel of Mathew, Ch. No. 15, Verse No. 24… ‘I am not sent, but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.’ So Jesus Christ and the Bible, were only meant for the children of Isreal. Since it was meant for them, to analyze the Bible, you have to use the meaning of the word, which was utilized at that time. But the Qur’an was not meant only for the Arabs of that time - Qur’an is not meant only for the Muslims. The Qur’an is meant for the whole of humanity, and it is meant to be for eternity. Qur’an says in Surah Ibrahim, Ch. 14, Verse. 52, in Surah Baqarah Ch. No. 2, Verse 185, and Surah Zumar Ch. 39, Verses. 41, that the Qur’an is meant for the whole of human kind. And Prophet Mohammed, may peace be upon him, was not sent only for the Muslims or the Arabs. Allah says in the Qur’an in Surah Ambiya Ch. No. 21, Verse No. 107------(Arabic)----That We have send thee as a mercy, as a guidance, to the whole of humankind.’ So as far as the Qur’an is concerned, you cannot limit the meaning only for that time, because it is meant for eternity. So one of the meaning of ‘Alaqa’… is ‘leech like substance’ or ‘something which clings.’ So professor Keith Moore said… ‘I did not know whether the early stage of the embryo looks like a leech’ And he went into his laboratory, and he analyzed the early stage of an embryo, under a microscope and compared it with the photograph of a leech, and he was astonished at the striking resemblance. This is a photograph of a leech, and human embryo. What Dr. William Campbell showed you is the other perspective of it. If I show this book - it looks like a rectangle - If I show you like that, it is a different perspective. That diagram is given in the book - The diagram which you saw on the slide is even there - And I’ll deal with it InshaAllah. Professor Keith Moore, after about 80 questions were asked to him, he said… ‘If you would have asked me these 80 questions, 30 years ago, I would not be able to answer more than 50 percent - Because embryology has developed recently in the past 30 years.’ He said this in the eighties. Now, do we believe Dr. Keith Moore whose statement is available outside in the foyer - his videocassette is available… ‘This is the truth’...’Anna-ul-Haq’... recorded statement. So will you believe Dr. William Campbell’s personal conversation with Professor Keith Moore, or the one mentioned in this book, with Islamic edition as well as the photograph that I had shown to you? And in the videocassette available outside you can see it - He makes those statements. So you have to choose which is more logical - Personal discussion with Dr. William Campbell or his statement on Video. Like how Dr. William Campbell showed my video - 100 percent proof what I said… ‘Moon is reflected light’ - I’ll come to it later on. And whatever additional information he got from Qur’an and Hadith, it was incorporated later into this book…‘The Developing Human’ - the 3rd edition nd this book got an award for the best medical book written by a single author in that year. This is the Islamic edition that was put forward by Shaikh Abdul Majeed Al-Jindani and certified by Keith Moore himself. The Qur’an says in Surah Muminun, Ch. 23 Verse No. 13, and Surah Haj Ch. 22, Verse No. 5, and no less than 11 different places in the Qur’an, that the human beings have been made from a ‘nutfaa’ ‘minute quantity of liquid’…like a trickle that is remaining in the cup. ‘Nutfa’ in Arabic… a very small quantity. Today we have come to know, that in one seminal emission, in which there are several millions of sperms, only one is required to fertilize the ovum - ‘The Qur’an refers as ‘nutfa.’ Qur’an says in Surah Sajda Ch. 32 Verse no. 8…‘We have created the human beings from ‘Sulalah’ - That means the best part of a whole. The one sperm which fertilizes the ova out of the millions of sperms, the Qur’an refers to as ‘Sulalah’…‘best part of the whole.’ And Qur’an says in Surah Insan, Ch. 76 Verse No. 2…‘We have created the human beings from ‘nutfatunamshaj’…a minute quantity of mingled fluid’ - referring to the sperm as well as the ovum - Both are required for the fertilization. The Qur’an describes the various embryological stages in great detail, of which the slides were shown to you - Dr. William Campbell, he helped me to complete this topic. It is mentioned in Surah Muminun Ch. 23, Verses No. 12 to 14 - The translation is that…‘We have created the human beings from a ‘nutfa.’ – ‘A minute quantity of liquid.’ Then placed it in ‘cararemakeen’ - a place of security. Then We made it into an ‘Alaqa’ - a leech like substance - something which clings - a congealed clot of blood. Then We made that ‘Alaqa’ into a ‘Mutga’ a ‘chewed like lump.’ Then We made the ‘Mutga’ into ‘Izama’…bones. Then clothed the bones with ‘leham’… flesh. Then We made it a new creature. Blessed be Allah Who is the best to create. These 3 Verses of the Qur’an, speak about the various embryological stages in great detail. First the nutfa placed in a place of security - Made into an ‘Alaqa’, Alaqa has got 3 meanings - One is ‘something’ which clings’, and we know that in the initial stages, the embryo clings to the uterine wall and continues clinging till the end. Point No.2, that it also means a leech like substance, and as I discussed earlier, the embryo in the initial stages, does look like a leech. Besides looking like a leech - it also behaves like a leech - It receives its blood supply from the mother’ like a bloodsucker. And the 3rd meaning which Dr. William Campbell objected to - that is the right meaning… ‘the congealed clot of blood’- And that is why Qur’an has a scientific error. And I do agree with him that Dr. William Campbell did not agree. He said how can it mean a congealed clot of blood, because if this is the case, then the Qur’an is wrong. am sorry to say Qur’an is not wrong - Dr. William Campbell with due respect to him… He is wrong. Because today…today…after advancement of embryology, even Dr. Keith Moore - He says that… ‘In the initial stages, the embryo, besides looking like a leech, also looks like a congealed clot of blood, because in the initial stages, of the stage of ‘Alaqa’, 3 to 4 weeks, the blood is clotted within closed vessels. And Dr. William Campbell made it easy for me - He showed you a slide. It will be difficult for you to see - But this is the slide he showed you. This is exactly what Professor Keith Moore said… ‘Looks like a clot, in which the blood is clotted within closed vessels And during the 3rd week of the embryo, the blood circulation does not take place - it starts later on - Therefore it assumes the appearance of a clot. And if you observe the conspectus - that is after abortion takes place, you can see, it look like a clot. Only one line answer is sufficient to answer all the allegations of Dr. William Campbell is that, the stages of the Qur’an while it describes the embryological stages, is only based on appearance… Appearance. First is the appearance of the ‘Alaqa’ , a ‘leech like substance’ as well as a clot of blood.’ And Dr. William Campbell rightly said that some ladies come and ask… ‘Please remove the clot’ - It does look like a clot And the stages are based on appearance. It is created from something, which appears like a clot, which appears like a leech, and is also something which clings. Then the Qur’an says… ‘We made the ‘Alaqa’ into ‘Mutga’ – a chewed like lump.’ Professor Keith Moore took plastic seal, and bit between his teeth to make it look like a ‘Mutga’- The teeth marks resembled the ‘somites.’ Dr. William Campbell said… ‘When the ‘Alaqa’ becomes a ‘Mutga’ the clinging is yet there - It is there till 8 and a half months- So… the Qur’an is wrong.’ I told you in the beginning, the Qur’an is describing the appearance. ‘The leech like’ appearance and the ‘clot like’ appearance, is changed to the ‘chewed’ like appearance. It yet continues to cling till the end - There is no problem. But the stages are divided on appearance - Not on the function. Later on the Qur’an says… ‘We made the ‘Mutga’ into ‘Izama’…bones - Then clothed the bones with flesh.’ Dr. William Campbell said, and I do agree with him, that… ‘The precursors of the muscles and the cartilagees… that is the bones, they form together - I agree with that. Today embryology tells us that the primordia of the muscles and the bones - they form together between the 25th and the 40th day, which the Qur`an refers to as the stage of ‘mudga.’ But they are not developed… they are not developed. Later on, at the end of the seventh week, the embryo takes form of human appearance - then the bones are formed. Today modern embryology says the bones are formed after the 42nd day, and it gives an appearance of a skeletal thing. Even at this stage when the bones are formed, the muscles are not formed. Later on, after the 7th week and the starting of 8th week, are the muscles formed. So Qur’an is perfect in describing first ‘Alaqa’, then ‘Mutga’, then ‘Izama’, then clothed with flesh, and when they form - the description is perfect. As Professor Keith Moore said that… ‘The stages - that how it is described in modern embryology… stage 1,2,3,4,5, is so confusing, The Qur’anic stage on embryology describing on the base of appearance, and the shape, is far more superior.’ Alhamdulillah. Therefore he said… therefore he said that… ‘I have no objection in accepting that Prophet Muhammed is the messenger of God and that this Glorious Qur’an has to be a Divine Revelation, from Almighty God.’ It is mentioned in Surah Nisa, Ch. No. 4, Verse No. 56, It speaks about ‘Pain.’ Previously the doctors, they thought that the brain was only responsible for feeling of ‘pain.’ Today we have come to know besides the brain, there are certain receptors in the skin, which are responsible for feeling of the pain, which we call as the ‘pain receptors.’ Qur’an says in such Surah Nisa Ch. 4, Verse 56, that… ‘As to those who reject Our signs, We shall cast them into the hell fire, and as often as their skins are roasted, We shall give them fresh skin, so that they shall feel the pain. Indicating that there is something in the skin, which is responsible for feeling of pain, which the Qur’an refers to as ‘pain receptors.’ Professor Thagada Tagada Shaun, who is the head of the department of Anatomy, in Chang Mai University in Thailand, - Only on the basis of this one Verse, he proclaimed the Shahada, in the 8th Medical conference in Riyadh, and said …(Arabic)…. That… ‘There is no God but Allah, and that Prophet Mohammed, peace be upon him, is the Messenger of Allah. I started my talk by quoting the Verse from the Glorious Qur’an from Surah… from Surah Fussilat, Ch. 41, Verse 53, which says…(Arabic) ‘That soon We shall show them Our signs in the farthest reaches of the horizons, and into their souls, until it is clear to them, that this is the truth.’ This one Verse was sufficient to prove to Dr. Thagada, Thagada Shaun, that Qur’an is a Divine Revelation. Some may require 10 signs, some may require 100. Some, even after a 1000 signs are given, they will not accept the truth. Qur’an calls such people, as in Surah Baqarah Ch. 2, Verse 18…(Arabic)… ‘The deaf, the dumb, the blind, they will not return to the true path.’ The Bible says the same thing in Gospel of Mathew, Ch. No. 13, Verse No. 13… ‘Seeing they see not, hearing they hear not, neither will they understand.’ nd regarding the other parts of ‘Embryology’, I will deal in my rebuttal InshaAllah, if time permits - I have to do justice to the other part also… regarding ‘Bible in the light of science.’ At the outset let me tell you, that Qur’an says in Surah Rad, Ch. 13, Verse. 38, that… ‘We have given several Revelations.’ y name only 4 are mentioned - The Torah, the Zaboor, the Injeel and the Qur’an. The Torah is the ‘Wahi’ the ‘Revelation’, which was given to Prophet Moses, peace be upon him. The Zaboor is the ‘Wahi’, which was given to David, peace be upon him. The Injeel is the ‘Wahi’, the ‘Revelation’ which was given to Jesus, peace be upon him. And Qur’an is the last and final Revelation, which was given to the last and final Messenger Prophet Mohammed, peace be upon him. Let me make it very clear to every one, that this Bible which the Christians believe to be the word of God, is not the ‘Injeel’ which we Muslims believe, was revealed to Prophet Jesus, peace be upon him. This Bible according to us, it may contain the words of God - But it also contains words of Prophets, words of historians, it contains absurdities, obscenity, as well as innumerable scientific errors. If there are scientific points mentioned in the Bible - there are possibilities - why not? It may be part of the word of God, in the Bible. But what about the scientific errors ? - What about the unscientific portions? - Can you attribute this to God ? want to make it very clear to my Christian brothers and sisters - The purpose of my presentation on ‘Bible and science’ is not to hurt any Christian’s feeling. If while presenting, if I hurt your feelings, I do apologize in advance. The purpose is only to point out, that a God’s Revelation cannot contain scientific errors. As Jesus Christ, peace be upon him said… ‘Search ye the truth, and the truth shall free you.’ We have the Old Testament, we have the New Testament - Now you should follow the Last and Final Testament, which is the Glorious Qur’an. As far as Dr. William Campbell is concerned, I can be more liberal with him - Because he has written a book ‘The Qur’an and the Bible in the light of history and science.’ He has given a presentation, and he is a medical doctor - I don’t have to be very formal with him. As far as the other Christian brothers and sisters are concerned, I apologize if I hurt you feelings during the presentation. Let us analyse what the Bible says about modern science - First we deal with Astronomy., The Bible speaks about the creation of the universe. In the beginning, 1st Book, Book of Genesis, 1st Ch., it is mentioned - It says… ‘Almighty God created the Heavens and the Earth, in six days and talks about a evening and a morning, referring to a 24 - hour day. Today scientists tell us, that the universe cannot be created in a 24 hour period of six days. Qur’an too speaks about six ‘ayyams’. The Arabic word singular is ‘yaum’ plural is ‘ayyam’. It can either mean a day of 24 hours, or it is a very long period, an ‘yaum’, an epoch. Scientists say we have no objection in agreeing that the universe - it could have been created in 6 very long periods. Point No.2 - Bible says in Genesis Ch. No. 1 Verses No. 3 and 5,…‘Light was created on the first day.’ enesis, Ch., 1 Verses, 14 to 19… ‘The cause of light - stars and the sun, etc. was created on the fourth day’. How can the cause of light be created on the 4th day - later than the light which came into existence on the first day? - It is unscientific. Further, the, Bible says Genesis, Ch. 1, Verses 9 to 13… ‘Earth was created on the 3rd day. How can you have a night and day without the earth ? The day depends upon the rotation of the Earth Without the earth created, how can you have a night and day? Point No..4, Genesis, Ch. No. 1 Verses 9 to 13 says… ‘Earth was created on the third day.’ Genesis Ch. No. 1 Verses 14 to 19 says…‘The Sun and the Moon were created on the fourth day.’ Today science tells us… ‘Earth is part of the parent body… the sun.’ It cannot come into existence before the sun – It is unscientific. Point No. 5, the Bible says in Genesis, Ch. No.1, Verse No. 11 to 13…‘The vegetation, the herbs the shrubs, the trees - they were created on the 3rd day And the Sun, Genesis, Ch. No. 1, Verses. 14 to 19, was created on the 4th day.How can the vegetation come into existence without sunlight, and how can they survive without sunlight ? Point No.6, that the Bible says in Genesis, Ch. 1, Verses No.16, that…‘God created two lights the greater light, the Sun to rule the day, and the lesser light the Moon, to rule the night. The actual translation, if you go to the Hebrew text, it is ‘lamps’…‘Lamps having lights of its own.’ And that you will come to know better, if you read both the Verses – Genesis, Ch. No.1, Verse. 16, as well as 17. Verse No.17 says…‘And Almighty God placed them in the firmament, to give light to the earth… To give light to the earth.’ Indicating, that Sun and the Moon has its own light - which is in contradiction with established scientific knowledge that we have. There are certain people who try and reconciliate, and say that the six days mentioned in the Bible, it actually refers to epocs - like the Qur’an long periods - not six, 24 hour day. It is illogical - you read in the Bible, evening, morning - It clearly states 24 hours, it indicates. But even if I use the concordance approach - no problem. I agree with your illogical argument - Yet they will only be able to solve the 1st scientific error of 6 days creation, and second, of first day ‘light’ and 3rd day ‘earth.’ The remaining four, yet they cannot solve. Some further say that… ‘If it is a 24-hour period, why cannot the vegetables survive for one 24 hour day without sunlight?’ I say ‘Fine - If you say that the vegetables were created before the sun, and can survive for one 24-hour day, I have got no objection. But you cannot say the days mentioned are 24 hours as well as epochs - You cannot have the cake and eat it, both. If you say it is long period, you solve Point No.1 and 3, the remaining 4 are yet there. If you say the days are 24 hours day, you solve only Point No.5 - the remaining 5 are yet there - It becomes unscientific. I leave it to Dr. William Campbell, whether he wants to say… ‘It is long period’, and say that there are only 4 scientific errors - or say… ‘It is a 24 hour day’, and say there is only 5 scientific errors in the creation of the universe. Regarding the concept of Earth, there are various Scientists who have described… ‘How will the world end.’ Hypothesis - Some may be right, some may be wrong. But either the world will perish or the world will live forever. Both cannot take place simultaneously – It is unscientific. But this is exactly what the Bible says. It is mentioned in the Bible, in the book of Hebrews, Ch. No.1 Verses No.10 and 11, and the book of Psalms, Ch. No.102, Verse No.25 and 26, that…‘Almighty God created the Heavens and the Earth, and they will perish.’ Exactly opposite is mentioned in the book of Ecclesiastics, Ch. No.1, Verse No.4, and the book of Psalms, Ch. No.78, Verse No.69, that… ‘The earth will abide forever.’ I leave it to Dr. William Campbell to choose which of the two Verses are unscientific - the first pair or the second pair. One has to be unscientific - Both cannot take place. The world cannot abide forever as well as perish – It is unscientific. Regarding ‘the Heavens’, the Bible says in Job, Ch. 26, Verse 11, that…‘The pillars of the Heaven will tremble.’ Qur’an says in Surah Luqman, Ch. 31, Verse No.10, that…‘The Heavens are without any pillars - Don`t you see? Don’t you see the Heavens are without any pillars? - Bible says heaven have got pillars. Not only do the Heavens have got pillars - Bible says in the first book of Samuel, Ch. No.2 Verses No.8, as well as the book of Job Ch. No.9, Verse No.6, and the book of Psalms Ch. No.75, Verse No.3, that… ‘Even the earth have got pillars.’ In the field of ‘Diet and Nutrition’ lets analyse, what does the Bible say. The Bible says in the book of Genesis, Ch. No.1, Verse No.29, that… ‘God has given you all the herbs bearing seeds, the trees bearing fruits - those that bear seed, as meat for you.’ New International Version says… ‘The seed bearing plants, and the trees bearing fruits bearing seeds are food for you, all of them.’ Today, even a layman knows that there are several poisonous plants like wild berries, stritchi, datura, plants containing alkaloid, polyander, bacaipoid - that which if you ingest, if you eat there are high possibilities you may die. How come the Creator of the universe and the human beings, does not know, that if you have these plants, you will die. I hope Dr. William Campbell does not give these vegetarian diet to his patients. The Bible has a scientific test how to identify a true believer. It is mentioned in the Gospel of Mark, Ch. No.16, Verse No.17 and 18 - It says that… ‘There will be signs for true believers and among the signs - In my name they shall cast out devils, they shall speak foreign tongues, new tongues, they shall take up serpents - And if they drink deadly poison, they shall not be harmed - And when they place their hand over the sick, they shall be cured.’ This is a scientific test - In scientific terminology, it is known as the ‘confirmatory test’ for a true Christian believer. In the past 10 years of my life, I have personally interacted with thousands of Christians, including missionaries - I have not come across a single Christian, who has passed this confirmatory test of the Bible. I have not come across a single Christian who took poison - I have not come across any who took poison, and who has not died. And in scientific terminology, this is also called as the ‘falsification test’ That means if a false person tries and does this test… takes poison, he will die. And a false person will not dare attempt this test - If you are not a true Christian believer, you will not dare attempt this test. Because you try and attempt the falsification test, you will fail. So a person who is not a true Christian believer, will never attempt this test. I have read the book ‘The Qur’an and the Bible in the light of history and science’ written by Dr. William Campbell. And I assume - that he is a true Christian believer, and at least I would like him to confirm to me about the falsification test. Please be rest assured… Please be rest assured, I will not ask Dr. William Campbell to have deadly poison - Because I don’t want to jeopardize the debate. What I’ll do - I will only ask him to speak in foreign tongues… In new languages. And as many of you may be aware that India is a land, which has more than 1000 languages and dialects. Only thing I request him is, to say these 3 words… ‘One hundred rupees’, in the 17 official languages. There are only 17 official languages in India and to make it easier for Dr. William Campbell, I have got a ‘One hundred-rupee note.’ And this has all the 17 languages mentioned here. Besides English and Hindi, I will help him. I give him a beginning –‘Ek sav rupaiya, In Hindi.
The remaining 15 languages are here - I request him to read. I know the test says… ‘They will speak foreign languages on their own, without the help of reading’ - but I want to make the test easier, I want to see someone passing the test - I’ve not seen any one. So if he cannot say it on his own, or from his memory, at least read it. I don’t mind I’ll accept it. And I would request the chairperson to give it to Dr. William Campbell. He has his rebuttal - 15 languages, ‘Ek sav rupaiya’… 3 words only. What does the Bible say regarding ‘Hydrology’? Bible says in Genesis, Ch. No.9, Verse No.13 to 17, that… ‘After God, at the time of Noah submerged the world by flood, and after the flood’ subsided, He said… ‘I put up a rainbow in the sky as a promise to the humankind never to submerge the world again, by water. To the unscientific person it may be quite good… ‘Oh rainbow is a sign of Almighty God, never to submerge the world by flood again.’ But today we know very well, that rainbow is due to the refraction of sunlight, with rain or mist. Surely there must have been thousands of rainbows before the time of Noah, peace be upon him. To say it was not there before Noah’s time you have to assume that the law of refraction did not exist - which is unscientific.’ In the field of medicine, the Bible says in the book of Leveticus, Ch. No.14, Verse No.49 to 53 - it gives a novel way for disinfecting a house from plague of leprosy… disinfecting a house from plague of leprosy. It says that… ‘Take two birds, kill one bird, take wood, scale it - and the other living bird, dip it in water… and under running water - later on sprinkle the house 7 times with it.
Sprinkle the house with blood to disinfect against plague of leprosy? You know blood is a good media of germs, bacteria, as well as toxin - I hope Dr. William Campbell does not use this method of disinfecting the OT, the operation theatre. It is mentioned in the book of Leveticus, Ch. No.12, Verse No.1 to 5, and we know medically, that after a mother gives birth to a child, the post-partal period, it is unhygienic. To say it is ‘unclean’, Religiously - I have got no objection. But Leviticus, Ch. No.12 Verse No.1 to 5, says that… ‘After a woman gives birth to a male child, she will be unclean for 7 days, and the period of uncleanliness will continue for 33 days more. It she give birth to a female child, she will be unclean for two weeks, and the period of uncleanliness will continue for 66 days. In short, if a woman gives birth to a male child… ‘a son’, she is unclean for 40 days. If she gives birth to a female child… ‘a daughter’, she is unclean for 80 days. I would like Dr. William Campbell to explain to me scientifically, how come a woman remains unclean for double the period, if she gives birth to a female child, as compared to a male child. The Bible also has a very good test for adultery - How to come to know a woman has committed adultery, in the book of Numbers, Ch. no.5 Verse No..11 to 31. I’ll just say in brief. It says that… ‘The priest should take holy water in a vessel, take dust from the floor, and put it into the vessel - And that is the bitter water ‘And after cursing it, give it to the woman And if the woman has committed adultery, after she drinks it, the curse will enter her body, the stomach will swell, the thigh will rot, and she shall be cursed by the people. If the woman has not committed adultery, she will remain clean and she will bear the seed. A novel method of identifying whether a woman has committed adultery or not. You know today in the world, there are thousands of cases pending in different parts of the world, in different courts of law - only on the assumption that someone has alleged that a woman has committed adultery. I had read in the newspapers, and I came to know from the media, that the President of this great country Mr. Bill Clinton, he was involved in a sex scandal about 2 years back. I wonder, that why did not the American court use this ‘bitter water test’ for adultery? He would have gone scot-free immediately. Why did not the Christian missionaries of this great country, specially those who are in the medical field like my respected Dr. William Campbell, use this bitter water test to bail out their President, immediately. ‘Mathematics’ is a branch, which is closely associated with science, with which you can solve problems, etc. There are thousands of contradictions in the Bible - hundreds deal with mathematics, and I’ll first touch on few of them. It is mentioned in Ezra, Ch. No.2, Verse No.1, and Nehemiah, Ch. No.7, Verse No.6, the context that… ‘When the people returned from exile, from Babylon, when king Nebucheldeser of Babylon, when he released the men from Israel, they came back from captivity’ - and the list of the people are given. The list is given in Ezra, Ch. No.2, Verse No.2 to 63, and Nehemiah Ch. No.7, Verse No.7 up to 65; the list is given with the names as well as number of people released. In these 60 Verses there are no less than 18 times - the name is exactly the same but the number is different. There are no less than 18 contradictions in less than 60 Verses, of these two Chapters. This is the list - I don’t have time to run through the list - There are no less than 18 different contradictions in less than 60 Verses. Further it is mentioned in Ezra, Ch. No.2 Verse No.64 that… ‘The total congregation, if you add up… if you add up, it comes to 42,360.’ And if you read in Nehemiah, Ch. No.7, Verse No.66, there also the total is the same 42,360. But if you add up all these verses - which I had to do my homework - this is the list of Ezra… this is the list of Nehemiah. Ezra Ch. No 2, Nehemiah Ch. No 7 - If you add up - I had to do my homework…if you add up, Ezra Ch. No. 2 - It does not come to 42,360 - it comes to 29,818. And if you add up Nehemiah, Ch. No. 7, even then it does not come to 42,360 - It comes to 31,089. The author of the Bible, presumed to be ‘Almighty God’, does not know simple addition. If you give this problem, even to a person who has passed elementary school, he will be able to get the right answer. If you add up all the 60 Verses, it is so easy. Almighty God did not know adding – Nauzubillah… if we presume, that this is the word of God. Further if we read, in Ezra Ch. No. 2, Verse No. 65, it says…There were 200 singing men and women - Nehemiah Ch. No. 7, Verse No. 67…‘There were 245 singing men and women.’ Were they 200 - or were they 245 singing men and women? Context is the same - A mathematical contradiction. It is mentioned in the 2nd Kings, Ch. No 24, Verse No 8, that…‘Jehoiachin was 18 years old, when he began to reign Jerusalem, and he reigned for 3 months and 10 days. 2nd Chronicles, Ch. No 36, Verse No 9, says that…‘Jehoiachin was 8 years old when he began to reign and he reigned for 3 months, 10 days. Was Jehoiachin 18 years when he began to reign, or was he 8 years old? Did he reign for 3 months, or did he reign for 3 months 10 days? Further it is mentioned in the 1st Kings, Ch. No 7, Verse No 26, that…‘In Solomon’s temple, in his molten sea, he had 2000 baths. In 2nd Chronicles, Ch. No 4, Verse No 5, he had 3000 baths. Did he have 2000 baths or did he have 3000 baths? – That, I leave it upon Dr. William Campbell to decide which is correct. There is a clear-cut mathematical contradiction. Further more it is mentioned in the First Kings, Ch. No. 15, Verse No. 33, that… ‘Basha, he died in the 26th year of reign of Asa.’ And 2nd Chronicles Ch. No 16, Verse No 1, says that…‘Basha invaded Judah in the 36th years of the reign of Asa.’ How can Basha invade 10 years after his death? - It is unscientific. To make it easier for Dr. William Campbell, to answer to the points I have raised, I will just mention it in brief -The points that I mentioned. The first point was that -‘The creation of the Earth and the Heaven - the universe was in six, 24-hour days. Light was then before the source of light - Point No. 2. Three - Day came into existence before creation of Earth. Point No. 4 - Earth came into existence before Sun. Point No. 5 - Vegetation came into existence, before sunlight Point No. 6 - Light of the Moon is its own light. Point No. 7 - The earth - Will it perish or will it abide forever? Point No. 8 - The earth has got pillars. Point No. 9 - The heavens have got pillars. Point No. 10 - God said… ‘You can have all plants and all vegetation, including the poisonous plants?’ Point No. 11 - The scientific test the falsification test, of Mark, Ch. No. 16, Verse No. 17 and 18. Point No. 12 - A woman remains unclean for double the period, if she gives birth to a daughter, as compared to a son. Point No. 13 - Using blood to disinfect the house, against plague of leprosy. Point No. 14 – How do you find out the bitter water test for adultery? Point No. 15 - Eighteen different contradictions in less than 60 Verses of Ezra, Ch. 2, and Nehemiah, Ch. 7. I did not count them as 18 different - I counted them only as one. Point No. 16 - The total is different is both the chapters. Point No. 17 - Are there 200 singing men and women, or are there 245 singing men and women? Point No. 18 - Was Jehoiachin 18 years old, or was he 8 years old when he began to reign? Point No. 19 - Did he reign for 3 months, or 3 months 10 days. Point No. 20 - Did Solomon had 3000 baths, or 2000 baths? Point No. 21 - Is that Basha, how could he invade Judah, 10 years after his death? Point No. 22 is - Almighty God - He said, I put up a rainbow in the sky, as a promise to the human kind, never to submerge the world again by water. I have listed only 22, out of the hundreds available unscientific points in the Bible… scientific errors - And I request Dr. William Campbell to answer them. And irrespective whether he uses the ‘concordance approach’ or the ‘conflict approach’… as long as he is logical, he will never be able to prove scientifically, all these 22 aspects I have told him. We agree in Jesus Christ peace be upon him - to him was revealed the Injeel. This is not the Injeel - It may contain part of God - But the other unscientific portion is not the word of God. I would like to end my talk by giving the quotation of the Glorious Qur’an, from Surah Baqarah, Ch. No. 2, Verse 79 …. (Arabic)…. ‘Woe to those who write the book with their own hands, and then say this is from Allah, to traffic with it for a miserable price. Woe to those for what they write, woe to those for what they earn.’ Wa Aakim Dawana Anil Hamdulillahi Rabbil Aalameen .
(Dr. Mohammed) I would request the audience to bear with us, and maintain due decorum, for the continuation of this dialogue. Now I call upon Dr. William Campbell to present his response, to Dr. Zakir Naik.
(Dr. William Campbell) Well Dr. Naik has brought up some real problems - And there are also these problems that he has said. I do not deny them, and I don’t have good answers for them. But I will tell about… (Clapping)… We are going to make a mathematical study of prophesies - called the theory of probabilities. Estimate … and we will estimate the possibility, that these prophesies could be fulfilled by chance.
(Dr. Mohammed) I now call upon Dr. Zakir Naik, to present his response to Dr. William Campbell.
(Dr. Zakir) Dr. William Campbell only touched on 2, out of the 22 points I made - only 2. You can only solve 2 problems. The ‘six day creation problem’, and ‘first day light came’, and ‘the third day, Earth’ - But the remaining four problems, yet is there. So Dr. William Campbell chose to say ‘Days are long period’- and out of 6, he solved 2 scientific errors. The remaining 4 of ‘the creation of the universe’ , he does agree to it -That is good. The King James Version, as well as the New International Version, which Dr. William Campbell refers to… ‘Drink deadly poison’ – ‘Not eat’… ‘Drink.’ Dr. William Campbell does not know there are Indians out here - Surely many may know Gujarati, Marathi - Even I know. If I ask you… ‘Shu che….?’ Dr. William Campbell did not reply to my 20 points, and he started speaking about ‘Prophesy.’ What has ‘Prophesy’ to do with ‘Science in the Bible.’ If ‘Prophesy’ is the test - But even if there is one unfulfilled prophesy, the whole Bible is disproved to the word of God. I can give you a list of unfulfilled prophecies - According to your theory of… theory of probability, Bible is not the word of God. Irrespective whether you use the ‘conflict approach’ or the ‘concordance approach’ , if your logical, you will not be able to take out a single Verse of the Qur’an, which is contradicting - Neither a single Verse which is against the established science. If Dr. William Campbell cannot understand the Qur’an - That does not mean, Qur’an is wrong. Bible says in Job, Ch. No. 10, Verse No. 9 and 10 that… ‘We have made the human beings from clay, like poured out milk and curdled cheese.’ ‘Poured out milk and curdled cheese’… is the exact plagerization from Hypocrites.
(Q) Yes, I would like to pose this question, or rather this test to Dr. William Campbell. Why don’t you attempt the falsification test of the Bible, given in the book of Mark, Ch. 16, Verses 17 and 18, and prove to the audience here right now, that you are a true Christian believer?
(Q) My question is to Dr. Zakir Naik. The Christians explain the concept of ‘trinity’ scientifically, by giving the example of water, which can be in there states - solid , liquid and gas, in the form of ice, water and vapour. Similarly one God, is a triune God - Father , Son and Holy ghost. Is this explanation scientifically correct?
(Dr. Zakir) The word ‘trinity’ is not there in the Bible, but it is there is the Qur’an.
(Q) Dr. Zakir, you said… there is not any mistake in Qur’an. I see more than 20 mistakes in Arabic grammar, and I will tell you some of them. ….(Arabic) …. He said in Baqarah. And then in Haj ….(Arabic) .…Which is right - ‘assabeun’ or ‘assabreen.’ ‘Number 1 and number 2’... He said.
(Dr. Mohammed) Brother, one question at a time please.
(Q) Ya .. Since …the thing …. He said in Surah Taha, 63 …. (Arabic) ….Mistake ! …. (Arabic) ….Can you explain that ?
(Dr. Zakir) And the book he is referring to is by Abdul Faadi. Abdul Faadi… Correct ?… ‘Is the Qur’an infallible?’ I can see something ….ya…. Alhamdulillah my eye sight is good.
(Q) Dr. Campbell, since you are a medical doctor, could you please explain scientifically, the various medical aspects, that in the Bible, regarding - because you did not answer them in your rebuttal. , For example… Blood used as a disinfectant , Bitter water test for adultery, and most importantly , that the woman is unclean for double the period, when she gives birth to a daughter, than as compared to a son.
(Q) Okay Dr. Campbell, if you cannot answer the contradictions in Genesis, regarding ‘Creation’ - don’t you think that proves that the Bible is unscientific, and therefore not from God?
(Dr. Campbell) I admit that I have some problems with this.
(Dr. Zakir) The Muslim yard stick ‘the Qur’an’, is far superior to your yard stick ‘the science’ - therefore you should believe in Qur’an, which is far superior.
(Q) Dr. Campbell agreed to Dr. Naik, that the errors he showed are not wrong, and that he cannot answer them. So does this mean that Dr. Campbell agrees that the Bible has errors - so it is not the word of God ?
(Dr. Campbell) There are things in the Bible that I cannot explain - that I do not have any answer for now.
(Dr. Zakir) How can a son be two years older than the father? Believe me, even… even in Hollywood film, you will not be able to produce it.